Mission-led Government Stories - What it takes and what's next?

Today’s episode is a recording of our recent mission-led government virtual event.

Over the past six months we’ve been exploring with clients across the Civil Service what it takes to make mission-led government work, working with over 170 people. And so in today’s recording we share what we’re hearing and our insights, as well as hearing from you guys in the Mayvin community too.

This session will provide valuable space to make sense of the mission-led approach in your context, and develop some fresh perspective and practical insights.   

Hope you enjoy listening and if you would like to talk to us further re mission-led please do get in touch. 

Thanks so much for listening! Keep in touch:

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Transcript

Claire Newell  00:05

Hello and a warm welcome to the Mayvin people change podcast. This is the place to find thoughtful and heartfelt conversations about leadership and organisation development. Each episode is created with our listeners in mind. So if you have a suggestion for a topic you'd like to hear us talk about, please do get in touch with us. Mayvin are thought leaders in the area of leadership and organisation development, and have a wealth of experience in this area. We have a thriving community, and we offer regular free events. You can find out more details via our website. Mayvin.co.uk If you enjoy listening to this podcast, please do leave us a review on your favourite platform to help us grow our audience. Thanks so much for being here, and we hope you enjoy listening. Hello. Today's episode is a recording of our recent mission led government virtual event. Mission led stories what it takes and what's next. We know a lot of you wanted to attend but couldn't make it on couldn't make it on the day. Plus our podcast recording of our last mission led event back in November has turned out to be our most listened-to podcast ever. So we get it. There are a lot of you out there wondering, how do we crack this mission led thing? Since November, we have worked with four different government departments, speaking to over 170 people, delivering workshops to do just that. And so in today's recording, we share what we're hearing and our insights, as well as hearing from you guys in the Maven community too. FYI, we've edited out participant contributions to protect their privacy. So if it sounds a bit odd that we're replying to thin air, that's why. If you would like to see the slides as you listen along, please head to our Vimeo account, where you'll find a video version that shows the slides as well as our faces, or do send us an email on mail@mayvin.co.uk and we'll happily send you a copy of the slides. Hope you enjoy listening, and if you'd like to talk to us further about mission led, please do get in touch. Thanks.

Martin Saville  02:02

Great. We're going to just sort of cover here what we're talking about. So we're about to do a small groups check in. We're going to talk about our learning insights. As Sophie said, we're going to have a breakout around agency. What you're seeing is, in a way, it's giving away the punchline. But how do you work in a mission led way? How do you actually find your agency in such a big system? Opportunity for plenary reflections and check out and close, so that that's our plan for the day. So an opportunity to check in with each other. We're going to do this in small groups, of sort of twos and threes, and give you 10 minutes just to get connected, arrive, let go of whatever it is that might be still slightly pulling at you as you walked in the metaphorical door. And so in your groups, say hello, introduce yourself. And then just to think back to November, whether or not you were on the webinar we did back then, what's the same in your professional world and what's different? So bit of a guide for your conversation, and we'll pull you out in 10 minutes or so. Welcome back. Welcome back. Hopefully you had good conversations and an opportunity to connect. And just before, I hand over to Sophie, who's going to take us into the the sort of first main bit of our our session today, any, any sort of quick thoughts, noticings, comments, just from those conversations about how things are, how they might have changed, or how might they might still be the same since November. Just be good to hear from one or two people, just by way of getting some of your voices in. Yeah, yeah. Interesting, yeah. And it raises questions about expectations, doesn't it, and what, what were we expecting? And, you know, how, how is it? How is it different? Or, how is it not different to that? Yeah, lovely, great. Sophie, I'm going to hand over to you. I'm going to start getting ready with the slides. If anybody wants to throw in a final comment as I'm doing that, please feel free to do that. 

Sophie Tidman  04:20

And, of course, yeah, put in the chat as we go as well. That would be really nice. So I'm going to talk through our experience. So just also to notice, end of November, our first event, on this open event, we were still very much kind of thinking about what it meant to have a new government in place. And there was some energy around that. But it really a very, you know, lots of transition and kind of uncertainty, quite a liminal space. Since then, the spending review has been really prominent for people. So I just wanted to highlight that as an external event. It's really very prominent, very figural, for a lot of people. And perhaps we're still in transition. It's been sort of six months, and we tend to think transitions should be over sooner than they actually take. So just kind of, where are we? Are we in the new beginnings? Are we in a liminal space still? It's interesting to kind of keep that in mind. So just a very quick recap of what the mission led approach is. Not going to go too much detail into, kind of all the policy intellectual content. There is a lot online, and we have some background reading for you from the previous slides, and also some new stuff that we'll send out after this. But to notice that mission led is about about tackling really big societal challenges, really cross cutting, so thinking about climate change, obesity, plastic free oceans, inequality, opportunity, social opportunity, that kind of thing, so really quite amorphous, slightly, just huge challenges, and getting much more concrete about, about those grand challenges in terms of missions, in a way that galvanises a lot of different, diverse stakeholders come together to solve to solve that issue together. That's not just across the civil service, but really emphasis across the public sector, with local authorities, with the NHS, with the private sector, and further into civil society. So I think it's quite radical in terms of what it's thinking about in the social contract, and the shift in social contract and thinking about, how do we change the relationship between government and citizens and and develop greater trust and co creation? I think there's quite a strong that goes, goes along as it's about public value. And so see seeing civil servants, not so much as administrators or fixing market failures, to really creating public value, being kind of entrepreneurial or activist. Sometimes we've, we've talked to people about about our role as OD professionals, for example, taking a more activist stance, and this very, this big focus on the long term as well in that and then I don't think I was talking to Liz who's here today, Liz Goold, about this a lot. It's inherently a very systemic approach, but it possibly doesn't get said that much. And there's an argument where the systemic leadership, systemic thinking, sometimes loses people in its intellectualism. So there's something quite sort of care filled and passionate about the mission led approach that wants to be conveyed. So we've been doing quite a few workshops. In total, there's about eight workshops. They're half day workshops. So really, quite substantial with theory. A lot of kind of people coming together, kind of think about what their context is, what that means really in practice. So what's the reality of it? One of the questions that I'll be going into kind of our the wider picture from that data that we asked, the question we asked that we got a lot of data from, was what's the same, what's different to other large scale change initiatives? And one thing I noticed is that, you know, I used to work for Tony Blair. I used to do a lot of work in Africa, so evidence based policy was, you know, I've kind of aware of that movement, aware of the kind of deliverology movement, focus on delivery right? So we've seen those kind of things before. What was really prominent to me a mission that is the scale of ambition. So that's something that was quite different for me, and inspiring, and also that it's not being done anywhere like there's no best practice, there's no there's no kind of thing we're aiming for that I think there's a sort of tendency to to think that, that that is that there is something there that if we just knew the answer, then we could implement it. There isn't an answer. We're kind of finding by doing. We're building the bridge as we walk in. We worked with four government departments. Some very, very mission led some not so so much. And that touched about 170 people. So a lot of data there, and really focusing on practice and the reality and a lot of diversity of views came through.  So if we go to the next slide, same and different, what came up that was the same? So plenty of frustration, I think probably possibly some of you have already come up about that in your check in so, well, there's still lots of focus on siloed working isn't that the departments you know, are still very focused on their own area. And in some ways, that's just the nature of our government works in the structures which are quite there's a lot of inertia around those structures. So a lot of people notice, well, there's the same governance structures, same same roles, same teams. We've got spending review process that has been very drawn out and not that different in terms of, you know, actually, the mission led stuff has possibly got a bit lost in some of that, but you know that we'll see and decision making processes being the same, still quite a feel of the being being top down in terms of the process is ways of working. So the hierarchy feeling like it's getting in the way the hierarchy within departments, but also potentially the hierarchy from the centre, you know, it's a very centralised government in this country. And related to that, really taking the lead from ministers who have been feeling the pressure thinking about the next election, I had one client say to me this week, they've been thinking about the next election since day one, really, so that contrast with it's got to be long term. Well, actually, it feels quite we're going back into that short term political cycle, feeling that we had in early last year, the last few years, really, people talk about announceables and just just following the pace of government, of the politics, and that came through. So, so in one in one, in name, very mission led government actually, there was a few kind of people who said, Isn't mission led just doing what we're doing, but faster, which which we thought was quite interesting, and that's sometimes how it feels for people. Things actually just getting faster and faster. So not giving that space for real long term thinking, and letting kind of systemic work take place organically, and giving the freedom as well to to kind of make the connections work systemically, and then, and then something on language as well. So I think people know this term mission washing. So the idea that there's a veneer of of connecting things to mission, but actually, fundamentally it not being really felt, not being really understood. But it's a very mixed picture. And just actually to notice also that there is interesting people read this kind of what's the same as a negative question, though, those things kind of feel quite negative, right? But actually it could have been more positive, because lots of people, particularly the OD play space, do work systemically. There has been lots of energy around systemic work. You know, in challenging circumstances, civil servants want to work collaboratively. It wasn't, you know, things like rough sleeping strategies, teenage pregnancy, actually the work the government worked in a very mission led way, it just wasn't called that. So there's something about our perception of changing what we what we pay attention to, how we frame things. So next slide, what's different? And you'll notice that the paradox is some of these things are saying the opposite things to the previous slide. But that's isn't that just normal? We're working in a complex system. There's paradox, paradox everywhere. So there is felt that there's a bolder and more coherent vision, and people are talking about outcomes more, which is quite energising, although it's quite top down. There have been sort of shifts in how the centre relates to outwards and how number 10, HMT that sort of showing, showing up and being more willing to adapt in sport admissions, I think very much Kunz point about pockets is quite relevant here, right? You wouldn't necessarily expect to see big, grand gestures of change at the aggregate level. So this is very much speaking to pockets of change, where you know challenging conventional thinking is happening, the conversations changing, and we've got more of a basis to challenge each other, going to outcomes, going to what's our real ambition here? We can do more and then and then again. Yes, yes. Departments have got structures and have got a long a very strong identity, historical identity, so maybe not expecting too much to change. On the surface level of that, what they're saying or what they're kind of doing in the in the aggregate, but actually under the surface, it's lots of coalitions of the willing forming, and a lot of people talked about better relationships across Whitehall and and also with devolved nations and with local authorities. And then I think this is a very interesting contrasting point to the kind of it's just mission mission washing, the tone and the narrative have been evolving and are supporting different kinds of conversations. So yes, there might be mission washing. And actually, could that turn into something else, different kind of conversation, different kind of opening. So there's paradox there but also wanted to point out that part of our work as change practitioners, think about where we place our energy and attention last in the first mission led workshop, we brought you the Myron Rogers living systems model, and he talked he talks a lot about how organisations very often focused first on the structures, the procedures, the policies, so that very formal side of change what change should look like. And actually we need to pay much more attention to the underlying drivers in a system which he talks about as being identity relationships and information. So what this is, slightly, how I'm making sense of this is this is very, very ambitious, the fact that it hasn't yet translated into structures, for example, is that necessarily an issue yet? Isn't it better that actually the conversations are changing and it's growing organically, and the structures will take place from that, rather than us doing a sort of reactive machinery of government change, which you know does happen sometimes, and also notice that there are mission boards, for example, people, people, emphasising a lot. So there is a there is a pull towards that as well. Okay? We brought this slide last time. I just want to talk about a different context. So this is from Marianna Bucha to one of her papers, missions, a beginner's guide. Just I think it gives people a sense of containment and assuages some anxiety around missions. So it's the kind of formal idea, a kind of very neat way of understanding how missions could work, a sort of hierarchy of them. And just to notice that a lot of people think a bit about mission led in this way is quite an intellectual concept. It's got a huge amount of theory I used. I'm a recovering economist, right? So I'm quite passionate about that public policy economics view. There's loads of stuff that goes into it about, kind of the role of the public sector in intervening in markets, that kind of thing. There is a risk in in seeing it in this way and kind of saying, Well, okay, there's there's a right answer, there's a way to do it. There's an intellectual process, steps we follow to get to mission led. It's a technical challenge, right? What we've been saying or hear from our our clients, thinking about mission led more as what we call a generative image, so something that can really motivate consent, can give passion, so generative image is something that comes from Gervase, Bucha, dialogic, OD, you don't really need to know the background of that. I think generative images we use all the time in our lives, personal and work wise. So it's a compelling phrase, idea or metaphor that opens up new ways of seeing and talking about an organization's reality. So it doesn't really matter that we don't have the answers. And in fact, actually, generative images are much better when they're ambiguous, because then you ask, it has more energy. How are you making sense of that? How does this fit in your situation? You know, it gives it makes it much more adaptable to context. So you might be using it to reframe the current perceptions of a situation, thinking about how industrial policy can be done totally differently from how we did it before, in a much more relational way. For example, sparks new conversations, motivates collective action, disrupts the status quo and energy passion, yeah, because this is huge amount of change, and it's hard. And the people doing this, this change, it's not just about what the mission led kind of academic folk talk about capabilities. A lot of it's about courage and community and kind of giving each other permission to act in ways that it's very different from the status quo. So how are you going to get through that? What's going to be your inspiration? I think we talked a little bit in the check in about connecting with values, so it's linked to that. Gervase Bucha Bush talks about sustainable development as a vision stimulating phrase in the early 1990s which I think is quite a good comparison, actually, to mission led vision stimulating phrase. But obviously it's also a metaphor. So we often talk to our clients about, let's seeing organisations as a not just a machine, but perhaps a social construct or a living system. Alan Maya and Rogers So quickly, I've just talked for quite a while, so just wanted to give you a quick little exercise to do. So take a little take a piece of paper. I'm going to give you a bit of silence to do that and think about the question, what does mission led mean to you? Like, not not making sense of it, not trying to figure out the answer. But what does it evoke in you? What do you feel? Do you sense in yourself? You're thinking about mission lead, and just if you've got a pen to hand, that's great. If you have many art materials, use them, whatever, whatever's to hand. Just have a little doodle. See what comes up. I'm just going to give you a few moments of silence to do that. And notice also the process as you do that, any frustration that's coming, or, you know, if this is easy or hard All right, so I haven't given very long for that but if you're inspired, keep going while I talk through the next bit, you just go to the next slide. Martin, this is, this is what I made earlier. I just finished a dissertation. I was looking around mythology stories, and I popped mission led mythology into chat GPT, this is what I got. So what did Martin Fairley, it's a bit miscellany esque. It's very it's a very heroic image, isn't it? It's very aspirational. It is not grounded. It's very blue sky thinking. And that really speaks to me of the top down way that mission led is received by many people. So they're kind of like once, once we've been told what the missions are, then we can get on once, once our senior people have made a decision and told us their direction, then we'll get going. And after many years of hearing that, I'm pretty certain that is not coming. We do not. We live in a, you know, the brittle, anxious, non linear, incomprehensible world we are not going to get when nobody's coming to rescue us. So that top down interpretation, even even with mission led, the theory right is so radically inclusive and kind of speaks actually towards a self organising principle that is not comprehensible to people. That doesn't that's not how it feels, right? So even if that, even if they might be reading that words, that is not what's coming through in people's perceptions of mission led. Yeah, my doodle didn't look like that. It's fine. Yeah, yeah. I was doing a bit of a Blue Peter, but all your doodles are wonderful.  So maybe the next slide, our sort of hypothesis here is that we do need a new generative image that the level of kind of frustration with the kind of what's not working, the old paradigms, if something's dying, we need something new. We need some new ideas to take hold and and that's represented in a generative image. I had a conversation with our one of our associates, Steve Hearsum, who's a bit of a sceptic, I'm sure he won't mind me saying that, isn't this just about primary tasks. Sophie, which is an idea in od which, just like be very clear about what you're doing in your team or your organisation, every kind of entity has a very clear kind of one purpose that they need to fulfil with their survival, and that sort of misses out, really, that that we're human beings and we need something to connect to, is my argument. So the idea of kind of this top down idea, this, this idea that the that those at the top, know, know, all wide experts, technocrats, the idea of studied neutrality. Came up with clients recently, civil servants being very objective and really sitting back. This is no longer working for people is my provocation here, is our provocation. We do need a new generative images. Image. However, generative images are only so valuable if they insofar as the enhanced agency. Yeah. So how are people actually latching onto it, to do something different, to have different conversations, to experiment? Overwhelm is high. It's got more so I think, with the spending review process and and in some of the disappointment that actually things haven't landed in the way, the energy for the new government hasn't kind of led to anything really concrete, I think which people started with, and people actually in the same and different did talk a little bit about COVID. And people kind of talk a bit wistfully about COVID, sometimes thinking about kind of, we really just overcame some of the hierarchy and some of the siloed work because we were ruthlessly prioritising. So can we do the same with that? With missions, we need to say no to things before we can meaningfully say yes. And that's how a lot of our clients do start to reclaim agency. It's actually putting up boundaries before they kind of can say yes to missions or whatever else. And I think that it really matters, this dissonance between kind of the the idea, the intellectual idea of mission led, the aspiration, and then how it's, how it's how it's implemented. So that leads me on to my next point. I feel like we're missing an opportunity here, when when mission led is widely understood as a policy challenge, a technical challenge, and and even yesterday, people talked, I was with a big group, and they talked about, kind of like, there's there's delivery, and then there's people feeling that they're very either or right actually, rather than people are at the core of our delivery, we treat people well. We give them the freedom. We empower them. They will deliver. Can we trust that? And we have a real role as OD practitioners to be really centrally, saying that and challenging and perhaps being activist in that, particularly starting in the here and now, rather than saying, well, if, if this then, or which is actually holding us back, which is waiting for somebody else to act actually, what? What would mission led look like right now? So in this all this mess and this imperfection, what one thing could you do that was mission led? Because otherwise, we're sort of repeating the pattern, right? Of, kind of looking upwards, which is not what mission that's about, making space for generative conversations is a really important part of that. So these, that's the kind of, that's what we're trying to do in the workshops. And it's uncomfortable for people. The ambiguity is uncomfortable for people where, where that's been. There's been a lot of anxiety defences against that ambiguity in the last you know, probably intensifying in the last few years. And just that kind of coming together as OD and policy like, if you have a radical policy ideas that that that is also radical shift in your relationships, and so needs to be matched by kind of equally sort of radical ideas about co working, co creating, sort of self organising. Maybe you need a generative image for that. In Taiwan, they talk about radical trust as a way of, kind of opening up government to citizens. And I just love this is one of Myron Rogers maxims in that, in that way, it's in that, in that line of thought, it's the process you use to get to the future is the future you get. So actually, could we be, could we maybe making that case to our leaders more strongly? Okay, I've talked for quite a while now, so I'm going to hand it to you, Martin, and we're going to send you into breakouts in a moment. 

Martin Saville  26:36

Yeah, great. Thanks. Thanks, Sophie, so you'll have picked up from what Sophie was just saying there that really, you know, the conclusion that we're coming to. The punch line that I signalled at the start of the session was that mission led government works if people can find their agency, if people can get on with stuff, rather than waiting, waiting to be told or waiting to be shown, we got to work out how, how and what it looks like by doing it and and so as we've put here in the slides, you know, for mission led government to fulfil its potential, people need to be able to do what needs to be done in the way that it needs to be done. They've got to sort of find their way to do that. And we see that as a leadership and an organisation development challenge. And here we are a group of leadership and organisation development people on a call. So what we wanted to do was to invite you into breakout conversations. Hopefully the technology will be kind, and that will work, and the conversation that we wanted to encourage you to have for 20 minutes is listed in the final three bullets on the slide. So perhaps you could take a photo of that, or Claire, perhaps you or one of the team could just post that into the breakouts once they're set up those questions. But where are you seeing people claim their agency in the mission led context? So building on what works, what the same and different slides that we were talking about earlier show is that actually there are places where it's happening. So where are you seeing it happen? And if you're not in a government context or not in a context where mission led is something that's actively talked about, then you know, what does that mean in terms of your sense making of what mission led is about, even if it's not called that. And then think about, you know, where are the places where you yourself are able to claim your agency, and how does that work, and what makes that possible? And then finally, you know, with, with those sort of thoughts, perhaps inspiring you, how can we be most useful as OD and D practitioners in practical terms, in practical terms in this conversation around supporting agency in order to support a more mission led approach. That's that's our question for you. So we'll put you all into your breakouts, and we'll pull you out brutally in the way that teams does in 20 minutes, and then we'll have a bit of a plenary chat about that. Thank you. 

Sophie Tidman  29:27

Well, people just coming back, Charlotte was just, I hope you didn't mind me sharing Charlotte, you said your mind went to a weird place because it went to a story which was Lord of the Rings. I would argue that's not a weird place that we're human beings. We make sense of the world. We make meaning through stories. And where are the stories around mission led, really meaningful stories we we can't have economists in charge of this agenda, terrible at stories. I know.

Martin Saville  29:53

Welcome back. Would be great just to get a flavour of the conversations that that you had and um, and so perhaps you could just sort of speak, speak directly to the room, or feel you're more comfortable putting in the chat then feel free to do that, but be good to get an actual live conversation going. So yeah, what did you find yourself discussing in terms of agency and how you find how you find agency yourself, how you've seen others do it, what that means for us as OD, people, yeah, lovely. I mean, it's really interesting, because we're thinking about, about, about the the Olympics, as a generative image, you know, as well as an actual thing, you know, it's something that people could, could galvanise around, you know, could find their place in, you know, there, yeah, it would capture their imagination, and actually, you know, the opportunity inside of that for them to find their agency, even though, obviously, there was, no doubt, a lot of governance and bureaucracy around it, and I mean, a lot of the time, what we find ourselves talking to our clients about, whether we're talking about mission led or whether we're talking about, you know, complexity, or working systemically, it's actually about daring to take action, rather than, you know, in service of a sort of broad general direction, you know, a star, rather than waiting to be told exactly what, what that looks like. And so as you're talking, I'm kind of, you know, I'm struck by how the kind of, the enabling, you know, the enabling, sort of notion of the Olympics sort of made that possible. And, yeah, that notion of a convener, I think, is really helpful here, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Lovely. Thank you. Other thoughts, yeah, yeah, yeah. So mission, mission sort of says, you know, we're all trying to work together to achieve the same thing, and we've all got our part to play. And then actually, the sort of subtle cues actually say, well, more you than you, and how, how undermining that can be, yeah, yeah. Trust well. 

Sophie Tidman  31:59

And also, there's, I think there's also the mission there. The way it's been interpreted is very much kind of in organisations that really value sameness and alignment and control and that top down thing, which can we can feel very exclusionary. And it's sort of a bit of a paradox that actually, the more you allow bit of divergence in and the sort of generative conflict, the more then actually you do get more convergence and alignment. And some some organisations are just very unwieldy, quite fragmented amongst their leadership community. And bringing them together, actually is first a process of bringing the difference out before, before you get to the convergence

Martin Saville  32:39

We've got a minute or two before we need to move to, to close any, any other reflections from, from anyone other, either on the original questions or riffing off what you've, what you've, yeah, what we've been talking about so far. It's a really interesting question. There's, there's a whole webinar in that question, isn't there? Or, I suppose, one of the things that I'm, I'm, I'm struck by just listening to that, is that sort of sense of no boundaries at all are as paralysing as too many boundaries, you know. And it sort of sounds like what you're describing in that that team you're working with is a sense of, you know, complete, complete boundarylessness, you know, which means that actually it's very unclear what they should be doing, or whether they can, or how, or so. I suppose that that was one, one thing that struck me, and I think, you know, you've also, you've put your finger on something really significant, which is, actually, you know, we're not talking about mission led in a vacuum. We're talking about it in a highly centralised, bureaucratic institution, governed institution, you know, with, with, you know, many, many, many decades of of history sitting behind it. And so how you yeah, what does mission they'd look like in that context is different to what it might look like in other, you know, in other kinds of contexts. And I think, I think, you know, that is, the question is, how we make the transition? And I don't, I don't have a clear answer. Sophie, you probably got some, some reflections. I think it's a great, great question.

Sophie Tidman  34:20

Thanks for putting me on the spot. Then, yeah, no, I think your point about boundaries is important. And yeah, people, there's a constant negotiate, so putting in boundaries and what some sense of containment wherever you can, and contracting as part of that, because people are going to be renegotiating their relationships. Because the whole point of missions, systemic workers, you're not staying in your lane anymore. So where's your lane? How do you get in that other person's lane? What do they what are they expecting? What you're expecting? So you need to build those relationships so you can always be contracting. So sometimes it's those, those relationships are getting you to a point where you're change ready, maybe not doing the change immediately, but yeah, you're building the capacity, the resources for change, the social capital.

Martin Saville  35:03

Yeah, thank you. I wonder whether, just before we move to close, just showing you our dear old Hannah Arendt slide that we thought we might, we might share if it was relevant. Hopefully, you can, you can see that. So Hannah Arendt sort of mid 20th century philosophers of German American philosopher, but she, there's this quote from her, since we always act in a web of relationships, the consequences of each deed are boundless. Every action touches off not only a reaction, but a chain of reaction. Every process is a cause for unpredictable new processes. This boundlessness is inescapable and so so it's you know, it purpose in sort of sharing that with you is just to sort of introduce this idea that actually, I think ultimately, is about just taking action, taking one step, seeing where we are, and then taking the next step and seeing where we are and having some sense of, perhaps where we're headed, and redefining that as things change and as we're influenced. But I suppose we're sharing it here as a bit of a challenge, the idea that someone tells you where we're going and what good looks like, and sort of invite a bit more bottom up ness and having finished on a word that doesn't exist, and pass over to you, Sophie, although Tess, I've just seen your hand go up, but I'll pass on to you, Sophie, and then from there

Sophie Tidman  36:45

Yeah, Martin, do you want to put the slides up? So just telling you where we're going next, what we're doing next. Invite you to some events coming up. But as as I'd be great if you could just put in the chat how you're leaving today, and anything maybe didn't get said. So we've got these early off the shelf offerings I mentioned at the beginning. We're doing a range of closed ones for different departments. So there's the mission led and mission led government understanding it, which is just a one day, one off, half day workshop. We've got an open one on the 24th of June. So as you fancy, if you fancy, kind of doing a bit more on mission there meeting a wider, kind of pool of potential, wider network, that might be something for you. So let us know if you're interested. Also, just give us a call. We'd just reach out if you'd like to take this discussion a bit further and kind of talk about your context and what's happening for you. Mission led government practising is two half day workshops, sort of a month apart, to kind of get a space for experimental experimentation. In between those two workshops, it's quite practice led, obviously, mission led government leading, it is, a bit more like a compact leadership programme. So it's got the two, but work half day workshops, bookending it, but also Action Learning sets, three, three, half day action learning sets throughout. And that's a bit of a smaller programme to really deepen, deep and practice and build a kind of community of practice. And then finally, yeah, keep your three words coming. How are you leaving? How are you leaving? Be just really useful to for us to understand kind of where you are after that input and your discussions. Just to note, we've got some more places on our core practice programme, the next one that's starting on 14th of May. So you, you might know somebody who might yourself want to be want a bit of input, want a bit of professional development. Think of it. So do do pass that around, that information around, if you know anybody. We also have an open workshop understanding change in practice. That's a webinar, and that's our first of July. Our open, free events. We've got an alumni event next Thursday morning. So do come to that face to face, lovely networking event. And also our next artful practice webinar is on the 20th of June. That will be with me and thinking about mythic OD. So how we bring in this myth telling into organisations to help them face this face into the future. There's lots going on, so just be on our mailing list and you'll hear about all of them hot. Yeah, it's hot, isn't it? Thanks. Liz, thanks everybody. Really lovely to see you and to have this conversation. Thank you.

Martin Saville  39:38

Thank you. Sophie, thanks. Thanks all for joining us. Stay cool,

Sophie Tidman  39:44

stay cool. Stay cool or get cool. Thank you so much. Have a great week. Everyone. Bye bye.

Claire Newell  39:54

Thank you so much for listening to us today, and we hope to see you next time. Take care. Bye bye.